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GT = Wake Forest?

  • pckl300 said... (original post)

    I would say we very nearly do have the talent of all of those schools. But don't mistake talent for success. Ask Mack Brown about that one.

    Really? You honestly think that? How many ESPN150 recruits have we gotten compared to those schools? I'm not saying we could be getting more and just aren't, but the talent difference is decent. Just look at Michael Dyer and Marcus Lattimore compared to the RBs we brought in and redshirted for a position where we have 3 spots. Don't mistake me for thinking I don't think we have talent or event decent talent; we do. And we're getting better. But those in the top 5 in the recruiting rankings do truly have more talented players than we do. Luckily we tend to have better discipline and coaching than they do.

  • gary faulkner said... (original post)

    If you want to have some basis for comparison. Go watch uga, fsu and uf practice. They have more talent on the bench, for the most part, than we do playing. They also have places to hide them in school.

    Completely agree. There's a reason special teams is always a struggle for us- our non-starters are at a truly different level than those schools' non-starters. The depth is so much better at a factory because they can skirt them through school and sometimes offer other perks...

  • pckl300 said... (original post)

    And why is that a bad thing? If he's a walk on that has beaten out the scholarship players, then I'm excited. He must have earned it.

    The EXACT reason that excites you, worries me. He's a walk-on that none of our chosen linemen can beat out. Now, would he be playing if Howard and Yarnell and Barrick were still there? Don't know, but we were complaining about them at one time, dreaming of the day when "Paul-by-gawd-Johnson's" lineman would arrive. Well, seems to me they are here now, on the bench, watching Tyler Kidney.

  • GT Guy said... (original post)

    Completely agree. There's a reason special teams is always a struggle for us- our non-starters are at a truly different level than those schools' non-starters. The depth is so much better at a factory because they can skirt them through school and sometimes offer other perks...

    Yes. We can play (athlete-on-athlete) with a lot a teams with the first 22, give or take a handful. But in the 60 deep roster we have a couple of dozen that could not be on Flarda or Miami's scout team. Coaching will always be the key for us.

  • GT Guy said... (original post)

    Really? You honestly think that? How many ESPN150 recruits have we gotten compared to those schools?

    Yes I do. We haven't gotten nearly as many ESPN150 recruits as them; however much you value recruiting services is up to you, but my point is here: Among the BCS conferences, the difference between non-ESPN150 talent and ESPN150 talent is slim. They're picking the best out of the Division I athletes, who are all very elite athletes to begin with. It's like picking one brand of champagne over another. You may get the cheaper bottle, but it's still champagne.

    Let's take Mr. Heisman trophy Mark Ingram and compare him to Jonathan Dwyer and Anthony Allen:

    Ingram: 215 lbs, 4.62 40 yard dash, 1678 yards, 6.1 Avg, 17 TDs
    Dwyer: 235 lbs, 4.59 40 yard dash, 1395 yards, 7.0 Avg, 12 TDs
    Allen: 230 lbs, 4.45 40 yard dash, 1316 yards, 5.5 Avg, 7 TDs

    I took Ingram & Dwyers numbers from 2009 when they won their awards (Heisman & ACC POTY), and Allen from 2009. All 40 yard dashes are from the NFL combine. Anyway, all are great running backs, wouldn't you agree? Ingram has more yards, but Dwyer's average was better. Funny, I'd say between the three, the difference is marginal.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by pckl300 3 years ago

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  • GT Guy said... (original post)

    Ingram: 215 lbs, 4.62 40 yard dash, 1678 yards, 6.1 Avg, 17 TDs Dwyer: 235 lbs, 4.59 40 yard dash, 1395 yards, 7.0 Avg, 12 TDs Allen: 230 lbs, 4.45 40 yard dash, 1316 yards, 5.5 Avg, 7 TDs

    I took Ingram & Dwyers numbers from 2009 when they won their awards (Heisman & ACC POTY), and Allen from 2009. All 40 yard dashes are from the NFL combine. Anyway, all are great running backs, wouldn't you agree? Ingram has more yards, but Dwyer's average was better. Funny, I'd say between the three, the difference is marginal.

    The point is to do that at every position on the field. Where's our NT version of Mt Cody? What about the linebackers? I'd say we actually had the better QB (system vs system), but if you go look at the 2-deep it won't be a comparison. Now, I'm not saying this to say we can't compete. But we have to be extra vigilant, extra competitive, extra motivated, and better coached.

    To use your champagne example, if you are only comparing one bottle of $100 wine vs $50 wine, okay, you could probably be okay with the difference if the rest of your wine cellars were identical. Now, imagine every bottle of wine in your 100 bottle cellar is that difference and which cellar would you pick?

    This post was edited by GT Guy 3 years ago

  • GT Guy said... (original post)

    The point is to do that at every position on the field. Where's our NT version of Mt Cody? What about the linebackers? I'd say we actually had the better QB (system vs system), but if you go look at the 2-deep it won't be a comparison. Now, I'm not saying this to say we can't compete. But we have to be extra vigilant, extra competitive, extra motivated, and better coached.

    To use your champagne example, if you are only comparing one bottle of $100 wine vs $50 wine, okay, you could probably be okay with the difference if the rest of your wine cellars were identical. Now, imagine every bottle of wine in your 100 bottle cellar is that difference and which cellar would you pick?

    I don't understand the argument here. It is pure fantasy to say Georgia Tech gets, or has ever gotten, comparable talent via recruiting. His Alabama example is ludicrous. The perfect comparison is Chris Jackson. Jackson could not see the field in Tuscaloosa, and when he transferred to Tech he was projected to not only be a starter, but to be an exemplary starter (sic).

    You are absolutely right --we can compete but we have a markedly different equation for success. We will never trot out fifty superior athletes compared to our competition. This is just a hunch, but in terms of athletes most years we are closer in overall quality to Duke or even Middle Tennessee than we are to Georgia or FSU.

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    I don't understand the argument here. It is pure fantasy to say Georgia Tech gets, or has ever gotten, comparable talent via recruiting. His Alabama example is ludicrous. The perfect comparison is Chris Jackson. Jackson could not see the field in Tuscaloosa, and when he transferred to Tech he was projected to not only be a starter, but to be an exemplary starter (sic).

    You are absolutely right --we can compete but we have a markedly different equation for success. We will never trot out fifty superior athletes compared to our competition. This is just a hunch, but in terms of athletes most years we are closer in overall quality to Duke or even Middle Tennessee than we are to Georgia or FSU.

    You are exactly right. We can recruit and maintain the same student athletic as Duke , Vandy and WF, only because we don't have the "general studies" as the mills have.

  • stonedwall said... (original post)

    on the offensive side of the coin, i could care less about everyone else's perceived talent as long as we are recruiting the kinda boys we need for our system. i think navy has proven you can move the ball and score in this division with essentially FCS sized players and talent on offense as long as the players execute.

    however, on the defensive side of the ball, we definitely need our fair share of proven talent and some genuine stars. missing out on tuitt hurt.

    if we field a top-10 D and have the consistency and tenacity of the navy O we'll be damn tough to beat. i don't think it's pie in the sky to think we can do this. it won't be the coming season, though!

    Field a TOP TEN defense? When have we EVER had a top 10 defense?
    If we get a top25 defense I'll be estatic because there is nothing to show in past 2 yrs that PJ can put a decent defense on the field.We can give every excuse in the book but the defenses have STUNK.

    No matter how much we ignore it there is a good chance that practicing vs our Offense and PLAYERS does HURT our defense.When you have a terrible passing game(bad passers and WRs) you can't get use to playing good pass defense for example-
    AND that doesn't even get into practicing vs the TO .

    so yes it is pie in the sky without a 5 star recruit at DL.LB and DB every yr .

  • alaguy said... (original post)

    Field a TOP TEN defense? When have we EVER had a top 10 defense?

    I believe Tenuta had a #9 ranked defense one year. Every other year, he seemed to be in the top 15

    This post was edited by pckl300 3 years ago

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  • alaguy said... (original post)

    Field a TOP TEN defense? When have we EVER had a top 10 defense? If we get a top25 defense I'll be estatic because there is nothing to show in past 2 yrs that PJ can put a decent defense on the field.We can give every excuse in the book but the defenses have STUNK.

    No matter how much we ignore it there is a good chance that practicing vs our Offense and PLAYERS does HURT our defense.When you have a terrible passing game(bad passers and WRs) you can't get use to playing good pass defense for example- AND that doesn't even get into practicing vs the TO .

    so yes it is pie in the sky without a 5 star recruit at DL.LB and DB every yr .

    i'll give you this, alaguy. you're really passionate in your posts. but, you're just as delusional, too.

    so, we have to recruit at least THREE 5-star defensive players at DL, LB and DB every recruiting class? you must know something we don't know! do you think 5-star defensive athletes grow on trees? saban at AL, richt in athens, tressel at ohio state, notre dame and USC don't even do that year in and out!

    guess what? TCU had the best defense in the land last year and hasn't had a 5-star recruit as far as i can ever tell at defense. shoot, they don't have but two or three 4-star defensive recruits over the past 5 or so years.

    having a killer D is pie in the sky for EVERYONE across the nation, i suppose, cause nobody recruits as you suggest CPJ would have to do in order to break into the top ten on D. if you're gonna suggest a benchmark CPJ must attain, can you at least use one that's plausible for a human to achieve?

    This post was edited by stonedwall 3 years ago

  • stonedwall said... (original post)

    i'll give you this, alaguy. you're really passionate in your posts. but, you're just as delusional, too.

    so, we have to recruit at least THREE 5-star defensive players at DL, LB and DB every recruiting class? you must know something we don't know! do you think 5-star defensive athletes grow on trees? saban at AL, richt in athens, tressel at ohio state, notre dame and USC don't even do that year in and out!

    guess what? TCU had the best defense in the land last year and hasn't had a 5-star recruit as far as i can ever tell at defense. shoot, they don't have but two or three 4-star defensive recruits over the past 5 or so years.

    having a killer D is pie in the sky for EVERYONE across the nation, i suppose, cause nobody recruits as you suggest CPJ would have to do in order to break into the top ten on D. if you're gonna suggest a benchmark CPJ must attain, can you at least use one that's plausible for a human to achieve?

    Everybody involved with football from Pop Warner to the NFL understands the importance of defense. I'm not saying we should have a top ten defense, but we are so unacceptably bad right now. Nobody that has stewardship of the Georgia Tech football program should ever let the defense get to the putrid level it has been for the last 3 years. Paul Johnson owns our defenses troubles---it is squarely on his shoulders to improve it. If we could get into the top 30 defenses it would be a huge improvement. I have no facts for this, but I really am worried that this year we find out that Al Groh is a total fraud. Hope not, but UVA never seemed to even a decent defensive team while he was there.

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    Paul Johnson owns our defenses troubles---it is squarely on his shoulders to improve it.

    that's a completely fair post and i couldn't agree more. CPJ's the head coach and it's his responsibility to field a complete team on both sides of the ball. i certainly don't give him a pass on how bad our D has been.

    having said that, he's shown through our recruiting the past few years he's serious about solidifying this defense. we desperately need to get a pipeline of NTs, though. that's a keystone for the 3-4.

    while i know groh is touted as some kinda 3-4 guru, etc. i'm still holding out judgement. if he's truly as good as folks say he is, i'm expecting to see some of that translate to the field in his second season. we'll see soon enough.

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    I have no facts for this, but I really am worried that this year we find out that Al Groh is a total fraud. Hope not, but UVA never seemed to even a decent defensive team while he was there.

    Right, because someone who won a super bowl with their defense clearly has no idea what they're doing.

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  • pckl300 said... (original post)

    Right, because someone who won a super bowl with their defense clearly has no idea what they're doing.

    i don't judge groh on last year's D. and, i believe he knows what he's doing. but, we DO need the necessary pieces to complete the puzzle on this 3-4 defense.

    we have GOT to hold our own on the DL. i'm genuinely concerned we'll have issues with our front 3. last year, we got absolutely no pressure on the opposing QB. of course, in part that can be attributable to the new scheme. but, we don't have a proven, "big ugly" at NT and that's vital in the 3-4. there's only so much "coaching up" groh, or anyone else, can do.

    This post was edited by stonedwall 3 years ago

  • stonedwall said... (original post)

    i don't judge groh on last year's D. and, i believe he knows what he's doing. but, we DO need the necessary pieces to complete the puzzle on this 3-4 defense.

    we have GOT to hold our own on the DL. i'm genuinely concerned we'll have issues with our front 3. last year, we got absolutely no pressure on the opposing QB. of course, in part that can be attributable to the new scheme. but, we don't have a proven, "big ugly" at NT and that's vital in the 3-4. there's only so much "coaching up" groh, or anyone else, can do.

    Sure, I understand where you're coming from. But I don't understand why guys like Yukon are ready to declare him a fraud after one year.

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  • pckl300 said... (original post)

    Right, because someone who won a super bowl with their defense clearly has no idea what they're doing.

    I didn't declare him a fraud. I said I had a nagging concern that he might be, and I hoped the hell not. But getting in done in the pros where you go out and get the personnel you need and then show them how to do it, and doing it in college are two vastly different deals. Ask Charlie Weiss. What did you see last year that has got you convinced that we will be lights out on defense this year? I saw "some" improvement, but even that wasn't consistent week-to-week. We still had the same problems late in the year that we showed against Kansas. Many were personnel related, but we have not improved our personnel significantly. We are not about to completely shutdown VPI, Georgia, Clempsen, Miami, or UNC. When we get to that stage, then we'll have something to crow about. I think we are still going to be operating as a team that has to score 30 points a game to have a chance.

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    I didn't declare him a fraud. I said I had a nagging concern that he might be, and I hoped the hell not. But getting in done in the pros where you go out and get the personnel you need and then show them how to do it, and doing it in college are two vastly different deals. Ask Charlie Weiss. What did you see last year that has got you convinced that we will be lights out on defense this year? I saw "some" improvement, but even that wasn't consistent week-to-week. We still had the same problems late in the year that we showed against Kansas. Many were personnel related, but we have not improved our personnel significantly. We are not about to completely shutdown VPI, Georgia, Clempsen, Miami, or UNC. When we get to that stage, then we'll have something to crow about. I think we are still going to be operating as a team that has to score 30 points a game to have a chance.

    I saw flashes of brilliance that indicated that Groh had made improvements. If I'm correct, I believe our yards/play went down by about a yard, and we completely shut out Georgia's RB that tore us open a year earlier. Pass coverage could have been better, but there was enough improvement for me to be excited about this year.

    Factor in the talk about this year's team having a renewed attitude, and I think we'll surprise some people. I think Julian Burnett will be a first team All ACC linebacker, and Drummond might be in the mix for All ACC as well. Just a hunch on my part.

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  • pckl300 said... (original post)

    Yes I do. We haven't gotten nearly as many ESPN150 recruits as them; however much you value recruiting services is up to you, but my point is here: Among the BCS conferences, the difference between non-ESPN150 talent and ESPN150 talent is slim. They're picking the best out of the Division I athletes, who are all very elite athletes to begin with. It's like picking one brand of champagne over another. You may get the cheaper bottle, but it's still champagne.

    Let's take Mr. Heisman trophy Mark Ingram and compare him to Jonathan Dwyer and Anthony Allen:

    Ingram: 215 lbs, 4.62 40 yard dash, 1678 yards, 6.1 Avg, 17 TDs Dwyer: 235 lbs, 4.59 40 yard dash, 1395 yards, 7.0 Avg, 12 TDs Allen: 230 lbs, 4.45 40 yard dash, 1316 yards, 5.5 Avg, 7 TDs

    I took Ingram & Dwyers numbers from 2009 when they won their awards (Heisman & ACC POTY), and Allen from 2009. All 40 yard dashes are from the NFL combine. Anyway, all are great running backs, wouldn't you agree? Ingram has more yards, but Dwyer's average was better. Funny, I'd say between the three, the difference is marginal.

    You aren't helping your argument as Dwyer was one of the most sought after running backs in the country his senior year of HS and was rated as a 4-star recruit by every major recruiting service.

  • 91Wreck said... (original post)

    You aren't helping your argument as Dwyer was one of the most sought after running backs in the country his senior year of HS and was rated as a 4-star recruit by every major recruiting service.

    Alright Mr. Picky. How about Anthony Allen or Demaryius Thomas?

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