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Thoughts on Today's Events

Few thoughts regarding today’s news that the NCAA has invoked penalties on the Georgia Tech Athletic Association.

Isn’t it amazing that an NCAA investigation took place at Georgia Tech for 18 months and no media became aware?

The only thing I had heard quite a while ago that is somewhat related is that a former GT player had been banished from the premises for attempting to approach a player or players on behalf of an agent but that in itself does not constitute a violation.

Either Dan Radakovich or Bud Peterson indicated today that the NCAA had been adamant that the investigation not be made public but it’s amazing in today’s electronic world that nothing leaked out.

While most NCAA violations nowadays seem to center around recruiting improprieties or coaching missteps, this has nothing to do with recruiting and there was no involvement by the coaching staff.

Coach Johnson shared his thoughts after today’s press conference, “It is frustrating when you are not directly involved in something and it affects you in such a big way. I was awfully proud of the way that 2009 team played on the field and for the majority of those guys have to have an asterisk next to that effort without having done nothing wrong, coaches as well it makes it tough.”

The man who seems to always take the bad with the good without missing too much of a beat, went on to invoke his pet saying when things take a downward turn, “It is what it is”.

Was watching a recent jailhouse show about prisoners who play music while incarcerated. One prisoner talked about how the music program could be dissolved or a prisoner could be punished for an infraction and have his music privileges taken away. But no matter what they can’t take away a man’s music ‘cause it is in his head.

Isn’t that how a championship is in sports? Even though the NCAA has taken away the 2009 ACC Championship trophy, they can’t take away the fun, the excitement and all the great memories from that season and the championship that it produced.

Today was not a very good day for Tech fans but looking on the bright side, Georgia Tech is not moving and there is no lockout.

One final thought.. I've always been impressed with the integrity and class that the Georgia Tech coaches, players and administration possess and today hasn't changed those opinions one iota.

  • http://georgiatech.247sports.com/Article/Thoughts-on-Todays-Events-31538

    Thoughts on today's events..

    Pretty good observations Jim. I have always thought that Georgia Tech has been very good at keeping things hush-hush - at least in the 15 years that I have followed the program.

    The punishments, while seemingly drastic don't really hurt us much. We aren't losing scholarships or playoff eligibility in the coming years and as you said the championship season of 2009 can never truely be taken away from the fans, and oh what a fun year it was.

    My only question to you, or other Georgia Tech fans, is why isn't more heat being put on D-Rad? I mean, it was his actions, his "Mangerial Decision", that has lead directly to us being put on probabation for the next four years, yet nobody is angry at him? Also allowing a player being investigated by the NCAA to play for three games seems rediculous as well, whether you thought he would be cleared or not.

    More sloppy work inside our Athletic Association.

  • excellent thoughts, jim! it amazed me that this was kept so hush-hush as well. that in and of itself gave me hope this wasn't going to be a bombshell. and, while no violation should be considered acceptable, the punishment we've incurred is more like a cherry bomb going off in our hand than an A-bomb.

    IMHO, if this had been headlines last july, we'd have had an even more rocky season last year. but, i truly think the current team of players we're fielding won't let this phase them a bit. they're already total and complete underdogs. the pundits are expecting them to barely play .500 ball. well, now we'll get to see what we're made of--this is when heart and fortitude are truly tested.

    some of you might think i'm nuts for saying this, but i bet deep down CPJ is readily embracing this moment as it gives him a chance to set a revival tone for this team. he likes his teams to "play scared" as he says. to me, that's healthy cause it makes you HUNGRY. what better way to prove you're a man than to be knocked down but get back up and dust yourself off? without loss of schollies and the ability to still play in postseason we'll have that chance.

    champ, i've read the entirety of both the NCAA findings and the GT response from march. the NCAA's biggest beef seemed to be with the tech attorney and the compliance director. they felt the attorney was too lenient in his interviews and he also didn't follow proper procedure. the NCAA felt the compliance director didn't fully notify the ACC of all the pertinent info necessary to deem eligibility. they took umbrage with his approach. both of these individuals are no longer in our employ and measures have been taken to shore up the compliance department. this isn't to say D-rad shouldn't have talked to CPJ. that was wrong. but, that was only one action that ruffled the NCAA feathers. i feel the other two hurt us more.

    D-rad and president peterson trusted in folks that didn't satisfy the expectations (right or wrong) of the NCAA. we're told this has been rectified. i trust them.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by stonedwall 3 years ago

  • If I had any respect for the NCAA bureaucracy, other than being excellent hypocrites, the action would bother me. But as they are just a bunch of wh$res for the money, what they say doesn't matter.

  • TheChamp said... (original post)

    My only question to you, or other Georgia Tech fans, is why isn't more heat being put on D-Rad? I mean, it was his actions, his "Mangerial Decision", that has lead directly to us being put on probabation for the next four years, yet nobody is angry at him? Also allowing a player being investigated by the NCAA to play for three games seems rediculous as well, whether you thought he would be cleared or not.

    More sloppy work inside our Athletic Association.

    Champ, not sure exactly why that is except that Dan has done such an exceptional job at Georgia Tech and has built up a tremendous amount of goodwill.

    I asked him afterward about his decision to speak with Coach Johnson and his perception was that it would be okay but in the end it was a mistake.

    A man who has done a lot of great things and conducted himself with integrity made a decision that proved costly but in the end he stood up and took ownership of his actions. Time to move on.

    This post was edited by Jim Hart 3 years ago

    Georgia Tech Football Talk at: http://GTSportsTalk.com

  • stonedwall said... (original post)

    excellent thoughts, jim! it amazed me that this was kept so hush-hush as well. that in and of itself gave me hope this wasn't going to be a bombshell. and, while no violation should be considered acceptable, the punishment we've incurred is more like a cherry bomb going off in our hand than an A-bomb.

    IMHO, if this had been headlines last july, we'd have had an even more rocky season last year. but, i truly think the current team of players we're fielding won't let this phase them a bit. they're already total and complete underdogs. the pundits are expecting them to barely play .500 ball. well, now we'll get to see what we're made of--this is when heart and fortitude are truly tested.

    some of you might think i'm nuts for saying this, but i bet deep down CPJ is readily embracing this moment as it gives him a chance to set a revival tone for this team. he likes his teams to "play scared" as he says. to me, that's healthy cause it makes you HUNGRY. what better way to prove you're a man than to be knocked down but get back up and dust yourself off? without loss of schollies and the ability to still play in postseason we'll have that chance.

    champ, i've read the entirety of both the NCAA findings and the GT response from march. the NCAA's biggest beef seemed to be with the tech attorney and the compliance director. they felt the attorney was too lenient in his interviews and he also didn't follow proper procedure. the NCAA felt the compliance director didn't fully notify the ACC of all the pertinent info necessary to deem eligibility. they took umbrage with his approach. both of these individuals are no longer in our employ and measures have been taken to shore up the compliance department. this isn't to say D-rad shouldn't have talked to CPJ. that was wrong. but, that was only one action that ruffled the NCAA feathers. i feel the other two hurt us more.

    D-rad and president peterson trusted in folks that didn't satisfy the expectations (right or wrong) of the NCAA. we're told this has been rectified. i trust them.

    stonewall, agree with you that this could potentially be a very good motivational tool (us against them) as the team moves forward.

    Georgia Tech Football Talk at: http://GTSportsTalk.com

  • Jim, please let us know about potential appeal in the coming days given the 15 day appeal notice deadline.

    In my objective view, in this instance, the punishment seems much too drastic on such shaky evidence. From all the docs, seems like too many unknowns about the clothing. After the Gardner-Webb scare, who knew Booker would surface in this light. Hopefully, we hire a stud on the appeal and it bears better fruit.

    Following stare decisis, the NCAA has to beat ohio st. pretty good. Else, it gives the folks looking to leave the NCAA (see pac-12 and big-10 commishes looking to pay athletes) a good argument that the NCAA is no longer relevant in today's world.

    A neat thing I saw from watching today's presser is the closeness between Bud and Drad. I think this bodes well going forward for CPJ and the fball team. But I bet Bud told Drad behind doors there aint no more get out of jail free cards. Plus this makes DRad getting pruned in the short-term future unlikely.

    BTW, I think the AJC's writers are way off base on their assessment. Some major media need to be calling the NCAA petty and small for this finding.

    Screw Clemson.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Jim Hart 3 years ago

  • Jim Hart said... (original post)

    I asked him afterward about his decision to speak with Coach Johnson and his perception was that it would be okay but in the end it was a mistake.

    personally, i think he probably felt getting CPJ involved would help to resolve the situation quicker. though, in hindsight he's learned the lesson that you have to play on the NCAA's timetable and bow down to their satisfaction. lesson definitely learned the hard way.

    this is just me thinking outloud . . . but, this was right before our biggest rival game and we only had 1 loss with little time to distinguish the in's and out's of what's happened and your counsel is telling you everything is fine. the ACC tells you the players are eligible based on what's been submitted by the compliance director. helluva tough position for the AD to be in.

  • buzzgamefilm said... (original post)

    Jim, please let us know about potential appeal in the coming days given the 15 day appeal notice deadline.

    In my objective view as an attorney, in this instance, the punishment seems much to drastic on such shaky evidence. Following stare decisis, the NCAA has to beat ohio st. pretty good. Else, it gives the folks looking to leave the NCAA (see pac-12 and big-10 commishes looking to pay athletes) a good argument that the NCAA is no longer relevant in today's world.

    Another thing I saw from watching today's presser is the closeness between Bud and Drad. I think this bodes well going forward for CPJ and the fball team.

    BTW, I think the AJC's writers are way off base on their assessment. Some major media need to be calling the NCAA petty and small for this finding.

    Fuck Clemson.

    have you read the GT response by chance? to me, i think the committee did a damn good job of showing just how shaky the evidence was.

    the AJC's looking to rabble-rouse and give D-rad a swift kick in the nuts. neither schultz nor bradley are gonna miss their chance to doom and gloom it!

    as for the punishment, the report also takes into account the basketball violations. i wonder how much of the probation is attributed to what happened there? wish there was a breakdown of the blame--for lack of a better term--the NCAA could provide. i mean, i know we're vacating the ACC champ. but, the four years and the fine?

  • I read it all and thought the gt response was pretty good. the shaky evidence could not satisfy the preponderance proof burden. it is ludicrous that on such shaky evidence, this all hinges on drad talking to cpj about this. plus we don't know exactly what the ncaa person said on the phone nor is it in writing. way too many holes in all of this to assume the ncaa's stance is even right. all of this needs to be challenged on appeal.

    to slop in the bball stuff is awful. two entirely different programs.

  • buzzgamefilm said... (original post)

    I read it all and thought the gt response was pretty good. the shaky evidence could not satisfy the preponderance proof burden.

    also, the NCAA says they were informed by the NFL that booker was in the employ of an agency in ATL. well, where's the proof? the GT committee actually sought information on whether booker and hilliard were agents, or acting on the part of agents, and found none after talking with the parties involved! this whole damn thing snowballed because the NCAA said agents were involved. ummm, proof?

  • If any GT fan wanted a reality check regarding our place in the college athletic world, then today was the wake-up call. Sorry, but unless it's gross misconduct that can't be ignored because the media is all over it like white on rice (Ohio State and Oregon all over Yahoo, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, etc.), a major program doesn't go through this. Remember, rumors were swirling around those programs and USC and nothing ever happened. Once the media made it an issue and did the due diligence that the NCAA wouldn't do, then those schools finally had to face the music.

    We went 20 months without a peep (though some posters on other boards vaguely hinted something was going on 20 months ago), and then the NCAA decided to "take" our biggest achievement in the last 21 years away from us. Granted, the administration didn't do itself any favors during the process.

    The NCAA basically made GT an example today. The "crime" definitely didn't fit the punishment, but when the NCAA says "jump", you jump...when they say "bend over" you bend over...or else. Welcome to "or else".

  • AllGT said... (original post)

    The NCAA basically made GT an example today. The "crime" definitely didn't fit the punishment, but when the NCAA says "jump", you jump...when they say "bend over" you bend over...or else. Welcome to "or else".

    as they always say--it's not the crime, it's the cover up. in this case, i don't think it was as much a full-blown cover up as it was just bad judgement.

    they pretty much said they were making an example of us in the first paragraph of their report. mission accomplished.

  • stonedwall said... (original post)

    as they always say--it's not the crime, it's the cover up. in this case, i don't think it was as much a full-blown cover up as it was just bad judgement.

    they pretty much said they were making an example of us in the first paragraph of their report. mission accomplished.

    Yeah, we're starting to see "push back" from the NCAA in regards to dealing with schools that break the rules. Unfortunately, GT's "crimes" came at the worst possible time, and to top it off, the people chosen to direct the internal investigation took us in the worst possible direction. Those people are no longer with us.

    It's easier to make GT an example than it is to make a marquee name an example. Don't fool yourselves, this kinda stuff happens at pretty much any big time football school at a larger level. I'm not using that as a defense, I just know from friends that have gone on to play at big time schools. I read that one of the issues was the player that broke the rules was cleared to play one of our internal compliance and people and not the NCAA...not a good move. Even Auburn was smart enough to get clearance from the NCAA before the SEC Championship game. Ironically, the guy that was head of compliance for us went to Auburn at the time the whole Cam Gate was going on. Guess he learned from his mistakes...

    Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but the biggest player in all of sports is ESPN. What's ESPN's most valuable broadcasting asset right now? The SEC. Isn't it funny that with all that's going on/went on with the SEC the past decade in term of violations or rumored violations, NOTHING has come out of any of it. What's a looming threat to ESPN in it's biggest regional market (East Coast)? The Big Ten Network. What's the Big Ten's marquee team? Ohio State. Think about it...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0701-big-ten-nebraska--20110701,0,5568175.story

  • buzzgamefilm said... (original post)

    Jim, please let us know about potential appeal in the coming days given the 15 day appeal notice deadline.

    From what I understand an appeal is being polished up and will be presented prior to the July 28 deadline.

    Georgia Tech Football Talk at: http://GTSportsTalk.com

  • Swarm247

    buzzgamefilm

    Jim Hart said... (original post)

    From what I understand an appeal is being polished up and will be presented prior to the July 28 deadline.

    Jim, good to hear. Please have your sunshine open records request ready to go or confirm that GTAA will post the appeal papers on the NCAA-Response website. Any idea who is counseling the GTAA on the appeal?

  • Jim Hart said... (original post)

    From what I understand an appeal is being polished up and will be presented prior to the July 28 deadline.

    Good. These penalties are nuts. Plain and simple.
    Title should not be vacated. Period. There is no PROOF to declare players ineligible retroactively.
    Fine should be reduced. Probation reduced to 2 years.

    THAT is what a minor incident deserves.

    signature image

  • Confederatebuzz said... (original post)

    Good. These penalties are nuts. Plain and simple. Title should not be vacated. Period. There is no PROOF to declare players ineligible retroactively. Fine should be reduced. Probation reduced to 2 years.

    THAT is what a minor incident deserves.

    You can definately prove retroactively that a player was inelligible. That is exactly what happened to Reggie Bush.

    I think the probation would have been two years had we not already been on thin ice with the NCAA from our previous violations. We were still within the grace period which we needed to keep our noses clean to not suffer increased penalties.

  • TheChamp said... (original post)

    You can definately prove retroactively that a player was inelligible. That is exactly what happened to Reggie Bush.

    I think the probation would have been two years had we not already been on thin ice with the NCAA from our previous violations. We were still within the grace period which we needed to keep our noses clean to not suffer increased penalties.

    yeah, you can declare them. but, CB's point is there's no solid proof OUR players did anything wrong.

    these violations were minor. we were warned no major violations before 2010. the NCAA report even says they were minor, but the committee was troubled and basically gonna make an example outta us due to what they deemed as lack of cooperation, manipulation, blah, blah, blah. they all but say that on the first page of their official report--that brought down the hammer.

    This post was edited by stonedwall 3 years ago

  • AllGT said... (original post)

    If any GT fan wanted a reality check regarding our place in the college athletic world, then today was the wake-up call. Sorry, but unless it's gross misconduct that can't be ignored because the media is all over it like white on rice (Ohio State and Oregon all over Yahoo, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, etc.), a major program doesn't go through this. Remember, rumors were swirling around those programs and USC and nothing ever happened. Once the media made it an issue and did the due diligence that the NCAA wouldn't do, then those schools finally had to face the music.

    We went 20 months without a peep (though some posters on other boards vaguely hinted something was going on 20 months ago), and then the NCAA decided to "take" our biggest achievement in the last 21 years away from us. Granted, the administration didn't do itself any favors during the process.

    The NCAA basically made GT an example today. The "crime" definitely didn't fit the punishment, but when the NCAA says "jump", you jump...when they say "bend over" you bend over...or else. Welcome to "or else".

    Why do you think we were shut out of the NCAA basketball tourney so many times? Why do you think the Gator Bowl snubbed us? There has been a bias against Tech for many years.

  • Confederatebuzz said... (original post)

    Good. These penalties are nuts. Plain and simple. Title should not be vacated. Period. There is no PROOF to declare players ineligible retroactively. Fine should be reduced. Probation reduced to 2 years.

    THAT is what a minor incident deserves.

    It's a rhetorical question, but: Do we beat Clempsen in the ACCCG without Demaryius Thomas and Morgan Burnett?

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    It's a rhetorical question, but: Do we beat Clempsen in the ACCCG without Demaryius Thomas and Morgan Burnett?

    I think that is a pretty easy no.

  • TheChamp said... (original post)

    I think that is a pretty easy no.

    Would have to agree with you there.

    "A sure way to hit a par is to leave a four foot birdie putt two inches from the hole."

  • TheChamp said... (original post)

    I think that is a pretty easy no.

    I know where you're coming from, but it's not an easy no. The defense didn't stop Clemson all night, so M.Burnette was a non-factor. Bay Bay had 1 long touchdown and that was the extent of his impact. Do we beat them without that TD? No way to know really.

  • Jonathan Rowe said... (original post)

    I know where you're coming from, but it's not an easy no. The defense didn't stop Clemson all night, so M.Burnette was a non-factor. Bay Bay had 1 long touchdown and that was the extent of his impact. Do we beat them without that TD? No way to know really.

    Just having Thomas on the field changes Clempsen's defense. Whether he scored or not his absence would have been significant. Now, hypothetically, what if we had sat him for the Georgia game, and Hill makes "that catch" Woo hoo!

    And I wouldn't say we never stopped Clempsen. Every play that Spiller didn't take to the end zone was a "stop".

    This post was edited by Yukonwreck 3 years ago

  • Yukonwreck said... (original post)

    Just having Thomas on the field changes Clempsen's defense. Whether he scored or not his absence would have been significant. Now, hypothetically, what if we had sat him for the Georgia game, and Hill makes "that catch" Woo hoo!

    vacating a win over the mutts would have been wayyy worse for many on here than having to give up the championship, in the eyes of some that is the only game that matters all season.

    This post was edited by stonedwall 3 years ago

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